Questions for the Class After Having Watched "Apocalyspe Now":

Hi everyone.
Watching that movie got me thinking about certain moments in my own life. I have some questions and I was hoping that somebody might answer them.
Have any of you ever reached a time in your life when you thought you were at the breaking point? How did you make it through? If you were able to face that moment and come through visibly unscathed (although the mental wounds may always remain), then do you think there is anything in this world you could not recover from? What is your breaking point - the time at which you would turn your back on the world and see no hope for humanity? Is every person deserving of a second chance? What can one man do that is so vile and so wrong that he should no longer even be considered a human being? Can any person really give in to their evil nature and yet return home to what was once good?
"Apocalypse Now" returned these thoughts to my own mind, and I would appreciate anyone that would like to respond to these queries.

For me, Marlon Brando turned out to be a big let-down. He received top-billing in that film for what I think was about three minutes of actual screen-time. Ridiculous!

The Things They Carried

First of all I think this was a great book, great writing.
I thought it was interesting how O'Brien mentioned language throughout the book and how language can change reality. For example, how the soldiers made jokes about Kiowa dying in muddy shit and how the soldiers joked about Lavender being shot while he was going to the bathroom. Then, how their language effected their actions; finding a dead man beside a chicken coop and wanting to talk to him...act like he wasn't dead, so they set him up and sat around him...toasting to him.
There are many theories about how language shapes reality and this book, I think is a great example.
Also, since the soldiers language changed (joking about death) which changed their reality about death it made them unable to communicate when they were back at their homes. They could only communicate with other soldiers and they felt as if no one understood them.
This book was really great and I would definitely recommend it!

More on Platoon

After watching it again, I can honestly say that I actually really enjoyed Platoon the most. I really didn’t get to say much in our discussion on Thursday, but what I think is that Platoon does the best job of portraying what war is like in general. It obviously does it in the Americans point of view and it never gives us enough information about the Vietnamese they were fighting against. What it does do is show us the dehumanizing process and how war turns you into a monster with no type of moral whatsoever. Taylor kept questioning lots of things because he still was not dehumanized yet. He still had some morals intact. He lost it on some occasions, like in the village. It really makes me feel sad to know that war does turn you into some killing machine. The dehumanizing process is also emphasized in Full Metal Jacket, but because of all the images of people being slaughtered and the narration of Taylor throughout Platoon, it does a better job in showing us how it is done. Take the scene of Bunny. He just bashed that guys head in like it was nothing. It was almost like a spirited sport team just playing around and acting stupid at times. This was also restated in The Things They Carried. This might be true because of the age of the soldiers. They were all so young. Watching these movies just makes me kind of sit back and see how precious life is. In the end though, I think Taylor was just all screwed up inside. Killing the Srgt. was uncalled for. He did it out of revenge.

Platoon

I am actually starting to actually feel sad about all the violence these movies portray. Its war, of course there will be violence, but there is this killing of one’s innocence through war. That’s the connection I have been able to make with the movies we have seen. The “dehumanizing process,” being “born to kill,” and so and so forth. You can see how this is portrayed in Full Metal Jacket and Platoon. There is an emphasize put in Full Metal Jacket on being ready to kill at all cost. It’s for the good. In Platoon, you can see how war makes Taylor change. All the violence he is exposed to, the corruption, and how he kills his own sergeant in the end. None of the stuff seems very moral to me. Who are we to take someone’s life? War is very complex. If your not willing to kill, without hesitation, then you will be killed. War sure isn’t for me. I think war just turns people into Monsters. With no emotions or feelings for humanity. The scene that has been tattooed in my brain is where bunny just bashes the guy’s head in with his gun, and the killing of the lady right after that.

Shepherd's Grade A Rhetoric

I really enjoyed reading this rhetorical analysis not only because it raised so many valid points and is structured amazingly, but I also learned very much from it as far as an example goes. I think the aspect that touched on me the most was how he goes into depth of how multiple soldier lives could be expended at the cost of saving only one. But, I began to realize, due to the topics if this weeks RA's, that the idea of Private Ryan being a superhero icon is not so far fetched. In one aspect, yes, many soldier lives are being expended, but in return for a greater prize. At this point Private Ryan is no longer a soldier, he is the last of his family, and he is the main priority of everyone, which gives him a superhero qualitey: he is iconic in the eyes of not only the soldiers, but the viewers as well. As we all no there aren't too many of who could sa that we would not die for Superman, but why. This is due to the fact that through the sacrafice of a smaller figure saves the presence of a hero. And, a hero gives people what they want the most:hope. I think this is why Private Ryan is so highly sought after, and this is why I enjoyed Shepherd's article so much.

wow...amazing article

I was amazed at how an article that is so long and so full of issues could flow so easily. Shepard managed to discuss current foreign relations, past foreign relations, hollywood, and society. The article sounds professional yet his writing is so laid back. Its like he is speaking. For example he is casual enough to say things like, "They all have duties as soldiers that supersede their concerns for their own safety, especially if the mission's FUBAR- fucked up beyond all repair." His analysis of Saving Private Ryan is so different from anything else I have ever heard about it. Spielberg is one of the most worshiped directors today and Shepard not only had the balls to criticize Saving Private Ryan, he made it relatable and believable. His points were off the wall yet made complete sense. His point that Saving Private Ryan is duplicated from Schindler's List at first confused me. The more I read the more I began to agree. Spielberg's movies are obviously meant to please and are not as thought provoking as a movie like Apocolypse Now or Full Metal Jacket. Basically, I was really really impressed with this article.

Shepherd's article

Definitely worthy of that A+. The article has everything a well-written essay should have: style, content, evidence and persuasiveness. I'm not sure I get the reason behind the statement "It's not an accident that Spielberg has made three films about Worl War II and none about Vietnam" though. Because if Shepherd means that Spielberg hasn't made a movie on the Vietnam War because it can't be a "feel good" film then I'm not sure I agree with that. For if Spielberg wants to essentialy show good heroes, I'm sure he can portray that in the Vietnam War too. Yeah, the Vietnam War was a lot more pointless than the World War but Spielberg's a filmmaker. His movies are fictional, although they can be loosely based on reality. He can just as easily make a heroic soldier emerge from the Vietnam War as he can create E.T. All his movies lead to a "greater good" and the Vietnam War didn't. I agree with that. Yet, I don't see why Spielberg can't weave a story around a character that does take something good or bring good from the Vietnam War. After all, aren't movies all about creativity and imagination? And Spielberg has proven many times that he has plenty of both.

Jim Shepard gets an A++!

After reading the rest of Jim Shepard's article, I would definitely have to agree that it is indeed an A plus, plus... plus essay. Shepard is able to create an incredibly persuasive argument through his unorthodox points as well as his captivating writing style. The amount of information he is able to incorporate into the article is incredible. He is mentions everything from John Wayne to George Bush... without a hint of awkwardness or irrelevance.

His points are risque. Shepard touches on issues far beyond the reader's comfort zone. Saving Private Ryan is the best movie you've ever seen? ...think again. Spielberg is a genuis? ....maybe at manipulation. Unheard of! And yet... Shepard is able to take these wild claims and make sense of them. His whole article is written as if he was having a face to face conversation with just you. He's witty, incredibly knowledge... and hard to ignore. Its no wonder that this expose would be worthy of such high mark!

Spielberg doesn't make the audience think. Shepard does.

Private Ryan article

The author of this article is right about how it wasn't a coincidence that Steven Spielberg made three war movies all about World War II. I think he wrote that when leaving a theater, people would probably rather leave with a sense of pride towards their country than one of doubt. I remember when I first watched Saving Private Ryan the opening scene was sort of shocking but the movie resolved itself when good came out of what these men died for. I left the theater feeling relieved that everything had a purpose. When I finished watching movies like Platoon, I kind of just wondered what all of this even happened for. Because very little good came out of the Vietnam War, there was not much to comment on about why these men died. Like Shepard says, Spielberg would have to change history if he were to make a "feel good" movie such as Saving Private Ryan about the Vietnam War instead.

Spielberg... WWII v. Vietnam

I can't remember who said it but I agree with whoever said that the article was a little bit long, although I could see that it was really well written, it did get a little tedius. But as for the question of why Steven Spielberg chooses not to make any movies about Vietnam while he's made two about WWII, I think it could be for a mix of reasons. One being that the Vietnam War was one that we did not win, and since so many lives were lost, I think its safe to say that you might not be able to get that "feel good" feeling from watching a movie about tons of Americans dying for a lost cause than you would from seeing the story of the Americans that came to the rescue of innocent Jews trapped in Holocaust camps in WWII. Also, as we saw in Platoon, there were many actions by the Americans that might have been viewed as less than flattering, such as the bombing of Cambodian villages and the slaughtering of innocent Vietnamese. Also, I think this was brought up as well that the subject of WWII could just simply be interesting to Steven Spielberg. Yes, he has never made any movies about Vietnam, but i don't think he has made any about WWI or The Gulf War either.

Spielberg and Vietnam

I agree with Casey's post on why Spielberg hasn't made any movies based on Vietnam. As demonstrated in the movies we have seen, many times soldiers lose thoughts on why they are fighting there and in the end, America lost the war and many lives. Like Jim Shephard said in the article, "Saving people has of course been the main narrative feature of most of Steven Spielberg's work."

Shephard also writes, "Such entertainments are meant to make audiences feel good, because audiences want to feel good." We wouldn't feel so good about losing thousands of lives in Vietnam when many of these soldiers lost sight of what they were fighting for. We also wouldn't feel so good for losing so many lives in a war we lost.

Spielberg's decision not to make any Vietnam movies could just be one of preference. In Shephard's article we learn that Spielberg made two movies when he was just fourteen. They were boys' versions of World War II: Escape to Nowhere and Fighter Squadron. World War II may have just been a personal interest of Spielberg when he was younger and stuck with him as he directed more movies later on in his life.

The Politics of Deception... A++:

It was a really well-written and incredibly detailed article. You can tell how much time and effort Shepard put into writing it. It was a little long for my tastes, put purely on a basis of content and its affect, I agree that he deserves an A+. The reasons for this, are due to how successfully he draws the reader into the work. He is not afraid to ask questions, sometimes even the difficult ones, in order to draw the reader into his work and make them consider intellectually the topics he discusses. Shepard has an excellent writing style. He introduces his thesis topics directly and goes on to present concrete examples as to why he believes as he does. He sticks to the topics unwaveringly and is all the more effective at conveying his ideas because of it. These are the reasons why, if I had any say in it, he would receive the highest of grades. He need only work on brevity.

As for why Spielberg does not direct movies on the topic of Vietnam, I do not believe it to be a deliberate choice so much as he must gravitate toward WWII. The same question could be asked about why he has not made a movie about any other war. Spielberg has long been considered a champion for the Jewish cause and a staple of Jewish power in hollywood. World War II exemplifies the case for Jewish liberation and hope for a better tomorrow that his followers would naturally wish to see. He makes them with a sense of patriotism to appeal to the overall American audience as well.

Jim Shepard's Article

If I were Jim Shepard's professor, I'd give him an A+ for the semester. This article provides a truly entertaining perspective on how war movies appeal to different audiences (like Republicans vs. Democrats). I also liked his explanation as to why a group of soldiers were sent out to find one soldier, Private Ryan. My favorite part of the whole article was when he said "imagine how uneasy we would have been if Private Ryan had turned out to be Steve Buscemi." I don't think I can even really imagine how weird the movie would have turned out if he were in fact Private Ryan.

It doesnt suprise me When Shepard discusses Steven Speilberg not making Vietnam movies. I think a large part of this has to do with Speilberg's personal beliefs about the war. A lot of Americans were against this war, and there is probably a very good chance that he was one of those Americans. He was in his twenties during Vietnam. He could have even been one of the anti-war protesting types during that time of his life. I also think that he wouldn't want to make movies about a war that wasn't ever won. World War II had a clear winner: the allies. Vietnam also had a clear winner: not the allies. I don't think I would want to make a movie about this war either.

Why Private Ryan was not in Vietnam

Spielberg has not written about Vietnam because his stories end in something being achieved for the greater good.
All this death and destruction (like 6 men dying for 1 Private Ryan) was for a good cause (like how he ended up with good looking children) and how the war was won; in Vietnam nothing good was achieved. America did not win. Those men suffered for no good cause.
Spielberg would be forced to re-write history.

I really did like Shepard's style. He puts so much opinion in his work (like our discussion about using "I" in class today) but he also backs it up with evidence. It was entertaining and I enjoyed how much information he brought into it, like comparing so many movies at once.

And if anyone is a film person, is there a good film AT ALL about Vietnam???

9/25 Recap

Good morning!

1. Taylor was not late and therefore did not bake us cookies. We'll see about Thursday.
   
2. Please finish the Jim Shepard article, and respond to it either on the community blog, or on your private blog. What about the article is worth an A+, as I claim? Also I'd like you to explain what Sheppard's reasoning is when he says "It's not an accident that Spielberg has made three films about World War II and none about Vietnam."
   
3. Before writing your third RA (I posted the topics below) please take 5 minutes to read the two sample essays I distributed in class, paying attention to the author's comments in the margins; keeping the comments and the essays' structure in mind as you write will help make your own writing better.
4. Begin to think about the three movies we've seen to prepare for discussion on Thursday. Are they "good" movies? What do they show us? What don't they show us?
   
5. My posts are now in seductive purple: before adding your own post, make sure you scroll around to check if I've written something new and relevant.
   

Protest Songs: Marvin Gaye

Ok so I just wanted to talk about the whole Marvin Gaye album just because I listened to the whole thing and i think its probably one of the most meaningful albums that I've ever heard. I loved like every song, of course I had my favorites (Inner City Blues, What's Going On) but I enjoyed every song overall and it was a lot easier for me to listen to than Dylan. I don't know if it was the easy, lighthearted beats or the simple, powerful lyrics but I felt like I got a lot more out of it that Freewheelin'. I like how he used the ideas of family in almost every song and how most of the songs also had rhetorical questions in them, it made me think about how I would've felt at the time, and how i feel now with our own war going on. I just really thought that these songs are another good way of understanding the feeling of the time period.

The Loss of Innocence

Platoon features a side of war that is less comforting to a viewer. From the very beginning of the movie, we are all introduced to the darker sides of the Vietnam War like disease, drugs, and hostility between the troops. No movie has ever really scared me of war as much as Platoon has. Oliver Stone delivers a truly powerful message in this movie. War is not pretty...we all know that, but this movie makes war down right ugly. The quote by Charlie Sheen's character at the beginning of the film explains it all: "Hell is the impossibility of reason." That's what this place feels like. Hell. " I don't know if there is a hell, but this movie depicts some truly terrifying things which may be worse than hell. The loss of innoncence is a seemingly important theme presented by Stone. First of all, when the platoon comes across the farming village, some of the soldiers commit unjust murders and rape. These soldiers probably would have never done such an act if they were not in war. Stone definitely presents some of the strong psychological effects of war. After this scene, when Elias wants Bob to be court marshalled, we see an even darker side of war...betrayal. Elias was represented as one of the better soldiers on the platoon. After the shooting of Elias by Bob, it really left me wondering... how many people have died because of situations like this? Elias was an innocent, brave soldier that lost his life because he stood up for what is truly right. I believe the loss of innocence is one of the most powerful tools of rhetoric that can be represented in war movies, and Oliver Stone uses it to the fullest extent.

Analyzing War Movies and Such

Jenny... I definitely agree with all your tips for analyzing movies. All the war movies do seem to be very similar at first. It does take some deep thinking to fully understand what exactly the director wanted to portray in his movie. After watching Platoon, Apocalypse Now, and Full Metal Jacket, there are some obvious similarities, but also very different outlooks and points that the director chooses to emphasize. I never realized how many point of views and different interpretations one could take on the same subject.

Platoon

Oliver Stone really enjoys a good build up in a scene apparently. My comment will pertain to the first twenty minutes of the film due to the fact that the soldiers seem to think that they are in a position where absolutley nothing can get worse than it is, yet not one bullet is fired in the first twenty minutes. I particularly enjoy Charlie Sheen's voice overs as he is writing to his grandmother. I find it ironic that in one scenario he compares the first ten days in his platoon to Hell, then just as suddenly he turns right back around and says that humans that do not experience that are living "fake lives." If by fake lives he means most of society has not been face first in a mud puddle and hit rock bottom then he is correct. Yet, it almost seems as if he would prefer to live this passive "fake life" as he is unable to stand a first ten days where not one bullet has yet been fired. Then at the 21 minute marker when the enemy veers over the bushes, rather than stray from the fake life and begin this new real life in a platoon, his character panics and freezes up. In my oppinion that is as humanistic as a response as the realest person in the world to show fear.

1 2 3 Course Packet

The chapters in the course packet have made me aware of how much I do not take into account while viewing a film. There are just so many facets to a movie that I never relate to the final product or think about as a means to enhance my understanding of the movie as a whole. I have always found the amount of work that goes into a movie fascinating, but I never think in terms of what it says about the film in its entirety. For the most part, I have never been a movie person. The social aspect of partaking in entertainment with friends and fellow viewers is highly enjoyable but movies are never the top of my list. Reading these chapters has instilled in me the desire to try and see more and go beyond a surface level evaluation. It's almost hard to fathom just how many ways one can analyze a movie. With exposure to these ideas on how to approach a film, it seems they will be a lot more interesting and engaging from here on out.

Analyzing movies!

In response to Casey's thoughts about analyzing movies I totally understand. I am the same way. I have to watch a movie at least twice before I can really analyze it. Especially with war movies and other movies that are particularly moving. So what I recommend is to first watch a movie emotionally and then it again and look for more details and in a more in depth way. Also I think it is good to use the emotions that are evoked by the movie. Just ask what about that scene made me feel mad, sad, happy, etc. Was it the characters? Was it the setting? Was it the music? Then ask why that particular thing moved you. Why did the music touch me? Did it remind me of something personal in my life? Did it remind me of a certain time period? etc. This can really help get your brain kind of jump started into analyzing when your emotions kind of take over. To me, a lot of war movies seem to be the same. They all kind of run together to me until I do analyze them and really think about the issue at hand rather just sit in awe of hollywood's amazing graphics and other technologies.

Movies & Platoon

Lets just start by saying I very much dislike war movies.
Including Platoon, which I watched last night. To compare some material we have read in class....
When I read the chapters about writing about movies I don't know how I could possibly ever analyze these war movies. So how do you analyze the music, lighting, props, acting and everything else. I feel like I am to entranced in the movie, maybe I my emotion response is too strong?
So thats how I feel. See y'all bright and early tomorrow morning!

Who is the enemy???

After finishing Platoon, it became fairly obvious that the enemy was uncertain. The Viet Cong was never seen, but only in shadows. The enemy was portrayed as invisible and everywhere. Pvt. Taylor summed it all up at the end when he said: "We did not fight the enemy. We fought ourselves. And the enemy was in us."
Taylor, the main character, began with an idealistic view of the war at the begining, but the raw experiences of that war unfolded the reality of the truth: Good vs Evil. That battle took place within every soldier. By the end of the movie, Taylor was no longer the same.

Please Bring course packets to class

The title of this post says it all.

This is The End

Apocalypse Now begins with the beating sound of a whirling helicopter and a blank screen that fades into a panorama of jungle trees. The fading-into of the opening image accompanied by the hypnotic sounds of the helicopters suggests an awakening or opening of an eye into a reality plagued with belligerent images. This "reality" is however, distorted first by the juxtaposition of a close up of a man's face right-side up, and by the whirling of a ceiling fan. All three of these transparent images played at once, the mans face, the ceiling fan accompanied by the sounds of the helicopter, contribute to a distorted reality of someone who is on slipping in and out of consciousness on the brink of insanity. But the meshing of the different images suggests their interrelation, and the sequence of their appearance (first the image of the war scene and then he man's face) mirrors a suggestion of cause and effect- war the cause, has brought upon insanity the effect. And maybe layering of these images implies that war itself is ludicrous and that the poeple fighting in it are drones of a hypnosis that war has put them in.

Rejoice, Young Man in thy Youth

More ironic opening words for a film such as "Platoon," could not possibly be achieved. This film features neither rejoicing, nor happiness in any form, despite the key players being predominantly what in today's society are considered youths. The reality could not be farther from the truth. The film takes the viewer into a no-holds-bared depiction of the brutality of war and its affects upon the minds of those young soldiers made to fight therein. Despite previous comments, I believe this film to be almost completely devoted to the loss of innocence. It depicts the terror and response of a broken mind to the atrocious violence surrounding the individual. The film was about taking a privileged and moral young man and twisting him into a demented, confused, inconsistent, and eventually killer of fellow soldiers. While this final aspect may be seen as the most appropriate by the viewer (Barnes had it more than coming to him), it still was a crime lacking in moral judgement. To defend my claim of his inconsistency, I remind you that just seconds before the soldier bashed the crippled Vietnamese farmer's head in, Charlie Sheen himself had been pushing the men into such behavior by repeatedly firing a machine gun at the cripple's feet and pushing him to the ground. He barely was able to resist killing the man himself, and yet considered his fellow comrades "animals" upon observing their actions.

That's all I want to point out to anybody now. I was the only person to show up to Mr. P.'s screening. Shame on y'all!!! I am just kidding, but seriously, more people should show up if he ever does that again.

Platoon

I must say, I think I'm losing my own innocence by watching these war movies. I was never much of a war-movie fan but these movies are just downright disturbing. After watching platoon, I think I almost went through post-war trauma. There were so many scenes that stayed with me a long time after the movie ended. Some of them being:

1) when the soldiers bang a Vietnamese boy's face with his gun multiple times
2) when Barnes shoots Elias
3) when Elias is running away from hordes of Viet Congs.
4) when a soldier is fighting and drops his gun and just screams in helplesness until he is shot
5) when Chris shoots Barnes

I don't even know if I can put into words my reaction to this movie. It was so surreal, yet so real. I thought that as I watched more war movies, I would become more immune to violence etc. but I think the oppsosite is happening. I seem to be getting more and more affected by it. I thinka ll these war movies reflect a different evil each time. FMJ showed the loss if innocence of the soldiers and the murkiness of war while Platoon showed that the solders were not only fighting an outside war but also a "civil war" within the troops. The funny thing is, you barley see any patriotism in these soldiers. Before, I always used to assume that all soldiers were fighting for their country but according to these movies, it seems like the majority of them don't even want to be there. Watching what happened at the Vietnman war really makes me wish that wars didn't exist at all.

Platoon

I finished watching Platoon last night. This movie really shows the split between men, making an unclear depiction of what is right and wrong. Barnes is shown as a man without compassion, killing without regret or feeling, as seen in the raid on the village. On the other hand, Elias is shown as a bringer of justice as well as a war hero. These two polarities really give their meaning when you know that both have followers despite Barnes' questionable tactics. The fact that there were people that approved of the things that he did makes you wonder whether or not these people were trained to do this or were simply not trained properly.

Platoon is probably the most anti-war movie we've seen in this class so far (AN, FMJ, Platoon). It shows how the Vietnam War was way more complicated than just a war against the Viet Cong. It was a war with the Viet Cong as well as a war against each other and the environment.

Songs in class

I just wanted to talk about the differences in the rhetoric of the clips we saw that included music. I really do feel that, that one particular song…the one with the pictures…was the one that had a greater impact…I still see the picture of the young soldier…I think that the incorporation of the visuals with the, almost, matching lyrics gave the words more meanings. Instead of us, as viewers, using our imagination to picture the lyrics…we were given the exact image the person, who worked on this, wanted us to see. It has more of an effect when you can actually see the mixture of violence, and innocence, being incorporated into this Vietnam song. The song with the little girl seemed to have made the guys actually start to daydream. For a second, I thought it seemed very mechanical…the little girl was just singing something she had no idea about…with no emotions behind it. I think it would have been sang differently if she only knew what the songs meaning was. After the class gave good responses, I viewed it in a different view. Maybe her innocence made these guys think back about something that ties to that meaning…I don’t know, cause I didn’t watch the film. Another part of a song that stuck to me was the one Dylan used Gods name in this one line. I don’t remember the exact line, but I took it as him incorporating God, who is all forgiving, and to just give an example of how bad and corrupt things were…that God couldn’t even forgive. It kind of emphasized how bad things were…oh, and I just wanted to know if the movie night was going on Sunday or not?

An in-progress list of RA #3 topics

1. Caroline wrote on her blog post: "I watched Platoon yesterday and I have to say all these war movies are beginning to seem all the same." Agree or disagree and provide evidence. If you agree, what does it mean that the rhetoric of "all these war movies" is the same? If you disagree, tell us how they differ and what the differences tell us about them.
   
2. Compare the rhetoric of Platoon with the rhetoric of Apocalypse Now. Did one feel more "realistic" than the other? Which one felt closer to the truth, whatever that is? How did the film achieve that "truthy" realism?
   
3. The creation of the superman gave Hollywood the opportunity to construct a character who could transcend most moral and social categories while helping obfuscate the war's connection to U.S. politics and society. The superman allowed the movie-going audience to view Vietnam as a war fought by men psychically and morally different from themselves, men whose internal lives remain unfathomable and live on a more-murderous and elevated plane of reality than other men. It allowed the particular political reasons for the war and the moral questions that the intervention and the fighting itself elicited to remain untouched. It also granted the public ideological and psychological comfort with the notion that the death and destruction had more to do with the human condition than with any concrete decision made by the U.S. government or any moral responsibility of the American public for actively supporting or passively accepting the war. How do Platoon or Apocalypse Now support or negate this statement?
4. Sgt. Elias (Willem Defoe) and Sgt. Barnes (Tom Berenger) bookend the spectrum of differences among enlisted men. What rhetorical moves does Oliver Stone make to embolden and highlight these differences?
5. You've now seen three movies: FMJ, Platoon, Apocalypse Now, and you know what they show. Think about what they don't show, and how these omissions affect the audience.
   

caroline's thoughts on platoon

I watched Platoon yesterday and I have to say all these war movies are beginning to seem all the same. Platoon had some quiet moments and wasn't as chaotic as Full Metal Jacket but it still did a good job of portraying the war from a soldier's standpoint. The scene that stuck to me the most was in the first half of the movie when they all went into this village and just started shooting the innocent Vietnamese people living there. There was a point when this old lady comes out yelling when they repeatedly asked her husband where the Viet Congs were. When she was screaming at them in Vietnamese she was yelling about how they had killed the pigs and animals there. She was angry because that was all they had to live off of. This was how they made their money and without these animals, they would not be able to survive. She also kept saying that the Viet Congs were not there and that they don't come there. After they shot her, a little girl started crying hysterically, who they mistakenly thought was her daughter. It was really her grandma and she kept crying, "grandma, grandma!" but in a short so it would've been translated as granny. At this point it just seemed like the soldiers were just so frustrated that they weren't even sure who they were shooting. It also showed that many innocent Vietnamese were shot, like in Full Metal Jacket when they shot from the helicopter.

Sunday Night Platoon?

If I offered a Sunday night, 8pm viewing of Platoon at my humble abode (off South Congress Ave), how many folks would be interested? Let me know and I'll send out a flare later of the upshot on the gig.

KP

Thursday 9/20 Recap

1. Taylor, arriving late again, promised that the next time she's ever late she will bake cookies for the entire class.
2. Which got me to thinking: if any of you other non-on-time slackers arrive late, it best be with a box of donuts or apple cider or a bucket of gold. Otherwise the folks who do show up on time will not be pleased. Dig?
3. We're skipping week five's itinerary and moving straight to week 6 for next week's class. That means watch Platoon and Apocalypse Now.
4. Rambo fans, fear not. We will get to Rambo. We just haven't earned the right to him yet.
5. For Tuesday, I want you to have read all of "How to Write about Movies" in your packet (Chapters 1,2, and 3. Reread them if you feel you're having difficulty analyzing film sequences.) In class on Tuesday I will show you a scene from a movie and will ask you to write about its structure using concepts you learned from the reading.
6. If you were in class today, and you didn't hand in your RA because I forgot to ask for them, let me know and I'll accept it on Tuesday.
7. A kick-ass weekend: have one.

Movies/music

I just wanted to talk about analyzing movies in general. We usually just watch movie for entertainment. After reading the assigned chapters of the course packet, my perception of watching a movie for entertainment somewhat changed. I would agree with the author of chapter 1 when he says that you might be able to enjoy a movie more if you are able to just talk about it more to somebody. The way you present this information depends on who your audience is. I think that its interesting how the director might choose a certain camera angle, speed at which the scene is shot, or just the colors he uses. All that is crucial and it helps to getting his point across. Just doing that simple exercise in class with Blue Velvet, we were able to find many meanings just for the opening scene where we have the sky and then ascending to the red rose, white fence, and blue sky. The director could of very well used a different color of rose, or how to start that scene, but he did it intentionally to convey something else, which I don’t know what the exact message was :), but based on the class response, it’s a patriotic, all American type of symbol with the colors and the white fence. I think the same could be said about the way something is written. The literary devices one uses also helps to convey a message a certain way and this goes for music as well. All it is , is writting with notes added to it. You have your minor and major notes and that could even change the feeling of the song. I just think it’s interesting how a smal detail can change the entire picture.

Reponse to Taylor's "Music Matters"

Taylor, in response to your last post, I was definitely thinking about the same thing. All of this Vietnam music got me thinking about the protest songs of our generation. I think the Iraq war has had a profound impact on our society, but it hasnt reached the same height of contraversey seen during the Vietnam War. Regardless... I went through my itunes to try to find some songs written in response to the conflict in Iraq. So far I've found a couple songs...

"Light Up Ya Lighter" by Michael Franti & Spearhead
I first listened to this song because it was on a promotional Urban Outfitters CD I received with my purchase last summer... the lyrics are quite intense, but interesting.

"Fire, fire, fire, light up ya lighter, fire fire fire
Armageddon is a deadly day, Armageddon is a deadly way
They commin for you everyday, While Senators on holiday

The Army recruiters in the parking lot, Hustling kids there jugglin pot
Listen young man, Listen to my plan , Gonna make you money, gonna make you a man

Bom Bom

Here’s what you get, An M-16 and a Kevlar vest
You might come home with one less leg, But this thing will surely keep a bullet out of your chest

So Come on Come on, Sign up, Come on
This one’s nothing like Vietnam
Except for the bullets, Except for the bombs,
Except for the youth that’s gone

Chorus
So we keep it on, til ya coming home, Higher and Higher
Fire, fire, fire, light up ya lighter, fire fire fire, so we keep it on
Til ya commin home, higher and higher
Fire, fire, fire, light up ya lighter, fire fire fire

Tell me President tell if you will,
How many people does a smart bomb kill
How many of em do you think we got,
The General says we never miss a shot
And we never ever ever keep a body count,
we killin so efficiently we can’t keep count
In the Afghan hills the rebels still fightin,
Opium fields keep providin
The best heroin that money can buy
and nobody knows where Osama bin hidin
The press conferences keep on lyin like we don’t know

Some say engine engine number nine,
Machine guns on a New York transit line
The war for oil is a war for the beast,
the war on terror is a war on peace
Tellin you they’re gonna protect you,
Tellin you that they support the troops
Don’t let them fool you with their milk and honey,
No they only want your money
One step forward and two steps back,
Why do veterans get no respect
PTSD and a broken back,
Take a look at where your moneys gone seen
Take a look at what they spend it on
No excuses, No illusions

Light up ya lighter"


... I didn't even realize they mention Vietnam as well.

"Waiting on the World to Change" by John Mayer
This ones a more popular one and I'm sure everyone is somewhat familiar with it, so I won't waste space posting the entire song. But here are some specific lines that deal with Iraq.

"Now if we had the power
To bring our neighbors home from war
They would've never missed a Christmas
No more ribbons on their door
When you trust your television
What you get is what you got
Cuz when they own the information ooohhh,
They can bend it all they want"

one last song...
"Ain't No Reason" by Brett Dennen
He's a less known artist, but coincidentally opened for John Mayer during his tour this summer. Obviously on the same page when it comes to our current war...

" people walk a tight rope on a razor's edge
carrying their hurt and hatred and weapons
it could be a bomb or a bullet or a pin
or a thought or a word or a sentence.
there ain't no reasons things are this way
its how they've always been and they intend to stay
i don't know why i say the things i say,
but i say them anyway.
but love will come set me free
love will come set me free
i do believe
love will come set me free
i know it will
love will come set me free..."

"...keep on building bombs
gonna drop them all
working your fingers bare to the bone
breaking your back, make you sell your soul
like a lung is filled with coal, suffocating slow
the wind blows wild and i may move
but politicians lie and i'm not fooled
you don't need no reason or a 3 piece suit
to argue the truth"

Marvin Gaye's Whats Going On

"Mother, mother
There's too many of you crying
Brother, brother, brother
There's far too many of you dying"

Its unbelievable how powerful this song is. The lyrics as a whole are incredibly moving, but for me... just the first lines alone seem to make a huge statement. Gaye uses simple abab rhyme scheme and repetition to appeal to his audience, but the message is still so complex. It can be related to the timeless theme of war, but knowing that Gaye is specifically addressing the Vietnam War makes the lyrics even more appropriate.

I did a little wikipedia search to get more background information on Marvin Gaye... I had no idea that he sang "Ain't No Mountian High Enough". It suprised me that he created very pop songs as well. It really shows the how much impact the war must have had on him to create such a protesting album. I also found it very interesting that wikipedia did not mention the influence of his brother's death, but instead attributed the depressing tone of this album to the death of his lover, Tammi Terrell. I guess wikipedia isn't the most credential sight, but it is still interesting to find information that doesn't tell the whole story.

Blue Velvet

I have been analyzing movies to some degree for around four years now and surprisingly am learning much more in a rhetoric class than I have in film classes. Blue Vlevet came across to me as a community based patriotic movie but I could not figure out what the real argument was until we discussed it as a group. It becomes cleas that the director really wanted to emphasis that below a seemingly proud community lurks a form of darkness or danger under even the most innocent of animals or ways of living. For instance, when the dog seemed to be playing with the fire hose in an innocent manner, it was no until the camera cuts in and tilts downward to a slow motion shot that we realize that this innocent creature comes across as a beast of nature. Until finally, the final shot of the opening sequence strongly emphasises, if there were any doubt left, that this cover up outer shell that appears to be a peaceful community contains not onlydanger, but a grotesque form of evil as demonstrated by the extreme close ups of the ants in the grass.

Help! MUSIC ARCHIVE???

Does anyone know how to get to the music folder with all the Vietnam songs in it?!?!!? Do we access it through some website? :S

Movies/Blue Velvet

Until reading the article "Writing About Movies", I really hadn't considered some of the different ways of viewing a movie and critically analyzing it. I'm not going to lie, but I guess I've always watched movies for the entertainment perspective. Sure I've always known that directors do things for a reason, but damn, in Blue Velvet, the director was a genius. If I would have watched that four minute intro over and over for an hour, I may have picked up on a few of the things. I probably never would have realized that the flowers and the blue skies were meant to represent patriotism. I also probably would have never noticed the gun in the television as being anything more than just some movie that the lady was watching. This intro has definitely intrigued me to be more observant when it comes to cinema. After all, directors do pour many, many hours into crafting movies the exact way they want them.

Songs

blue velvet

I tried to pay a lot of attention to the first four minutes of the clip and take as many notes as possible but when we started talking about our observations, I realized I missed a lot of them. I did notice that everything was shown to perfection to show normal everyday life but I missed the whole patriotic scene in the beginning. When other people started commenting on what they had noticed, I realized that some of them were pretty obvious yet I still missed it. I liked that the director filed from top moving down in a lot of the scenes. I especially liked that when they children were crossing the street they were lined up from tallest to shortest.

I also noticed that the director spent time on the 'normal' everyday lifestyles but moved away quickly from the shot of gun. Sometimes it takes more than a couple times of watching before details are noticed.

Looking at movies

I don't think I've ever taken the time to think about why a director chooses certain camera angles and color choices and all the other specific things that you usually don't even think about when watching a movie until we took a look at Blue Velvet Tuesday. I remember noticing certain things like the fact that the woman happened to be watching a scary movie or something with the gun, and the bright color of the flowers against the pristinly white backdrop of the white picket fence, and of course I'm aware that here in America the white picket fence itself is a symbol of suburbia and the American dream. But I don't think I would've ever taken the time to put all of this together and think about the fact that every single thing that the director chooses to do in a movie is specifc and there for a distinct reason. So I feel like after that exercise, I'm going to begin to be able to take those small details that I noticed but never really thought much about and use that to gain an idea of what exactly the director was going for and how they wanted the audience to feel when watching the movie.

Blue Velvet...

It's funny how much information one can retrieve out of a four minute clip. I think that actively watching something and being involved can drastically inhance one's perception. I never do that when watching a movie, but ever since then I have to think otherwise. Colors, camera angles, music, and close ups are just a few thinkgs that need to be considered. Like Krzys said, "everything is rhetoric."

music matters

With our recent study of music in mind, I have been thinking a lot about current songs that blast through the radio. As we study the influence of song writers like Bob Dylan and Marvin Gaye, I am eager to find parallels in present day music. And at the moment, none come to mind. I know we are not living during the Vietnam War, but the Iraq War is strikingly similar. It makes me wonder if music will soon be a tool of protest the way it was during the 1960's and 1970's. And if so, what will that music be and how will it be received. There are actually a few songs with an anti-war connotation that come to mind, but I can't even think of the artist or title, indicating they did not have the kind of effect tantamount to those of the Beatles or Dylan. Many aritsts like them really were catalysts for change during their respective years. It will be interesting to see what the next years have in store and what outlets will be used to express disapproval for our current situation in Iraq.

She Wore Blue Velvet

I'd like to admit that after the first run through of Blue Velvet, I also thought the movie was going to be about space aliens. You aren't alone! But the second time through I kept the creepy beetle scene in my head while focusing on the beginning of the clip and then I realized that the scene is divided in two completely different halves. The first half begins with a perfect day: birds chirping, bright colors, a friendly firefighter waving, children crossing the street in a straight designated line, flawless houses behind white picket fences- it's almost too perfect. The second half is a sharp contrast: black floating gun on TV, the rattling spigot, the man in pain falling to the ground, the erratic barking of the dog, and finally the creepy ass beetles. The fact that there were several odd things going on in the second half convinced me it wasn't just about the invader beetles, but instead it was about their contrast with the events in the first half of the scene. I noticed that the song "Blue Velvet" played through the first half and even into the second half with the black revolver, the man falling over, the dog barking. The song sounds sweet and happy like the first half but doesn't match up with the images in the second part. It served to contrast the two in a kind of paradox. I thought about the beetles again and realized that they were in the ground, under the surface, below the perfect world. And by this point "Blue Velvet" had stopped playing and creepy, eerie sounds took over as the background music. The disturbing sequence of events from the black pistol to the black beetles in the ground coupled with the shift in background music, led me to the conclusion that there's something really weird going on under what seems to be a perfect Utopia.

New York Times Video:

I found the brief documentary on the present-day affects of Agent Orange in Vietnam to be extremely enlightening. The fact that we were spraying this chemical agent on friendly terrain in South Vietnam is even more disturbing. Regardless of the fact that many insurgents were crossing the border, I feel that we had no right to kill the vegetation and potential food sources of a country we had sworn to help protect and liberate. The greatest atrocity, would have to be the affect that Agent Orange is having on Vietnamese family's today. The chemical dioxin passes through the food chain from plants, to animals, to humans and eventually cripples or debilitates in other manners those exposed to it. Many people in rural villages receive direct exposure through the soil, which is of even greater detriment. Consideration for the future consequences of spreading poison upon a country should have been done before WE were ever to initiate a program such as this. (The saddest thing is I am sure that it was.) The New York Times video journal was an effective rhetoric for exposing American military negligence in Vietnam.

Blue Velvet

I agree with Deepti - the discussion we had about analyzing movies really brought into my attention the fact that there are so many more things you can look at other than just the plot and entertainment. Blue Velvet does this very well. The rhetoric that was used in the first few minutes of the film was done so that you know so much more about what to expect in the movie than if you just took plain camera angles and colors. I think that the subtlety of this form of rhetoric is something that is very interesting and would take very fine editing and filming to master. A lot of this was probably something that we would subconsciously absorb, and not something that regular people would notice and interpret.

Blue Velvet/Movie Analysis - Deepti

I must say, I think I'm terrible at movie analysis because I barely got anything out of those first 4 minutes of the movie. I thought and thought but honestly couldn't come up with anything; until other people brought stuff up. I'd thought that the movie would be about a man having a stroke and how his family dealt with the situation. It came as a shoch to me when Mr. P said that it was a romatic story! I found it interesting when people brought out color symbolism and analyzed camera angles because I wouldn't have thought of that stuff at all!
I think analyzing movies is going to be really interesting because up till now, that's something I haven't done at all. I love watching movies but never have I bothered to look at the deeper meaning behind scenes; I just always watched them for entertainment. I'm excited to explore this area of rhetoric =)

Masters of War

I thought the lyrics in this song, Masters of War, were particularly moving.
I printed them out and just read them for a while and it feels like Bob Dylan wrote these today about the war in Iraq.
Politicians call all the shots and make our soldiers do the dirty work.
Is it too far fetched to compare communism with terrorism, or not at all? We thought communism would take over the world and now we think terrorists will take over the world with fear. Because of the fears of 'you that hide behind walls, you that hide behind desks' countless men and women are sent to loose their lives
I think what makes this album so great is that it can be connected to us today in 2007, but the lyrics aren't wishy-washy - they are specific and direct but we can still connect to them. Pretty Cool.

Blue Velvet

The first four minutes of this movie really intrigued me and I am definitely going to have to go rent it sometime. I am a visual person and I particularly pay attention to colors and body language and setting. The thing that really stuck out to me was the almost constant visibility of nature and different kinds of life. At the beginning the picture of the red rose the camera starts from the top and then works its way down which shows a single red rose at first then many. A single red rose represents love and romance. Then there were several red roses and that led me to think that the love involved in the movie would not only involve a romantic relationship but other kinds of love as well such as family friends and love for oneself. The next picture of flowers the flowers are yellow tulips. Yellow tulips also have a not so well known meaning. Yellow tulips represent sunshine in your smile and hopeless love. The fact that the two kinds of flowers represented go from romance to hopeless may foreshadow the feeling of unconditional love which can fog one's vision and may lead to poor choices and actions. Colors as well as flowers have meaning. Yellow usually represents wisdom, joy, happiness, and intellectual energy. Whereas red symbolizes action, confidence, courage, vitality.

Cactus Cafe, 1 pm-2pm, Wednesday

That's where I'll be if you'd like to stop by and speak your mind. Look for the cactus. (The Cactus Cafe is in the union building next to Guadalupe and the new Starbucks.)

P.S. Blue Velvet structure

To recap: If I were to write about the opening scene of BV and what it means, I would begin with these two observations: the camera moves from high to low, and from long shots to close-ups. Why? How do those specific patterns of camera movement help give form to the "meaning" of the scene? What do we see when we get really close-up to something, according to David Lynch, the director? This is the line of thinking that you must use to analyze a text rhetorically.

Tuesday's Class Recap

1. Before you write your next Rhetorical Analysis, do spend some time with the twelve point checklist I gave you. I think it will help fine-tune the focus and quality of your writing.

2. If you'd like to meet with me to discuss specifics of your first R.A. and what you can do, in concrete terms, to improve the overall quality of your writing, let me know. I can come early(ier) before class, I'm free after class, Wednesday at 1pm in the Cactus Cafe (just make sure you give me a heads up beforehand if you're interested in meeting with me) or any other time that works for the both of us.

3. On Thursday, we'll be discussing Dylan's Free Wheelin' Bob Dylan and any other songs you'd like to address as well. For example, a comparison between "Blowin' in the Wind" and "Eve of Destruction" might bear luscious fruit.


4. R.A. topics are pretty much up to you, but remember to focus on the rhetorical choices made by each artist, and each song, and how they contribute to the meaning. How does form=content?

5. Both the community blog and your personal blogs feel alive, teeming with thought and reflection. It continues to be a pleasure to read them.

6. Blue Velvet is the name of the David Lynch movie we watched in class. Infinite Jest by David Foster Wallace is the name of the book that continues to hold the trophy as the best thing I've ever read.

7. Be excellent to each other.

From today's New York Times Science Section

In Vietnam, Fighting an invisible poison

Whats going on...

I actually really enjoyed Marvin Gaye’s album. Sometimes, I just think that the more famous you are, the more credible and respectable you seem to be. Having a brother go to Vietnam, I think Gaye had a better understanding of what was going on over there. I think that it’s nice when you have people in their position show interest and that they care about important issues of what’s going on around us. It makes the issue seem more important for some reason. Maybe because they have more publicity or are more recognized than others. They have easier access to express their feelings through interviews, and in this case music. The way the album was put together was also kind of read as a story, a cry of what was going on through music. As a musician, I think that the actual melodies and notes being played add extra emotions to the song and the way that it is sang. He was very clear about wanting people to come together and make a change. Together we can accomplish much more.

Tiffany on writing about movies

I want to go ahead and agree with Caroline and say that i never realized how much there is to writing about movies. What I mean is, until I read the articles in the course packet, I just figured that I'd write my opinion about the movie like I'd write any other essay. But after reading it I realized that there's so many different ways to write about movies depending on the audience and what you want them to get from your article of work. Looking back at my rhetorical analysis for Full Metal Jacket, I feel like I could've gone about it such a different way and I'm ready for the next movie to try and see how I'm going to put to use the information that i learned from the course packet.

Dylan

I too listened through Bob's The Freewheelin' Bob Dylan album several times. It's hard for me to say which songs I like the best. I think that comes with time and repeated listening with intervals of not listening to the album for awhile in between. Initially I just like to listen the sound: the key, the pitch, the chords, the feel of the music. And then I listen to the words. So it's hard for me to judge the album as a whole so soon but for now and for our intent as a class on the Rhetoric of Vietnam, I'd say three songs stood out to me right away: tracks 1,3,and 6. For those of you who have yet to listened to this AWESOME album (You really should! There's so much wonderful insight and truth to be shared), that's Blowin' in the Wind, Masters of War, and A Hard Rain's A Gonna Fall respectively.

I agree with Jeff, A Hard Rain's A-Gonna Fall definitely sounds like a protest song. But I have to disagree with Jeff on a few other things but I'll only touch on one. I don't think "all these songs" are "light and good for easy listening". I think it can be said that all of the songs have a very folk feel to them, but Masters of War is faaaarrrr from being light. When I hear this song I hear pitch black, and I hear a dark lament of bitter resent in both spoken and instrumental feel. The song has a feeling of drear and oppression and is made up of minor chords which are used in music to create dark, evil, angry sounds. And if the feel and simply the sound of the music doesn't give you a dark impression, his words will. He sings "I hope that you die, and you're death will come soon...And I'll stand o'er your grave 'til I'm sure that you're dead."

I want to add that this song (Masters of War) is not protesting war by simply mentioning "big bombs", "fast bullets", and "blood", this song is an angry protest to a group with power that "hides behind walls and...behind desks" that "lie[s] and deceive[s]"- namely the government, and the wealthy, and the corruption that results from the two that bleed into one another. Dylan wants big brother to know he can see "through your brain", this governmental brain that controls it's limbs in blind sight until it's supply of limbs are exhausted and the "young people's blood flows out of their bodies and is buried in the mud." He belts out his song in a powerful nasal grito that says to a deceitful government, we've had enough! The government has gone so far that "even Jesus" the very epitome of reprieve, "would never forgive what you do."

The song kind reminds me of CCR's "Fortunate Son." Masters of War speaks of a group of people (the speaker never mentions exactly WHO this group of people are) with power ("you that build the guns...bombs") that control from a far off places ("behind desks", "behind walls", "in mansions") away from the actual battle zone. The mansions suggest wealth, bombs and guns imply power, and desks imply authority, and the U.S. governemnt along with highly affluent individuals fit this description. CCR's song echo's the same awareness of an elite: a group of people ("the fortunate son", the child with "silver spoon in hand"), with power ("pointing the cannon", "the taxman") and control to "send YOU (the common man) down to war." Creedance's song says, "I ain't no senator son", "I ain't no fortunate one" and unlike the "millionaire's" son, "when the band plays 'Hail to the Cheif' Ooooooh they point the cannon at YOU."

OH OH OH... so one thing I noticed, (going back to Dylan) all of the songs from The Freewheelin' Bob Dylan album are played and sung by one person and one person only- good ol' Bob Dylan. Or at least from what I remember hearing. Did anyone notice that? The entire album was a solo. Maybe it's why he IS the freewheelin' Bob Dylan.

Blah blah blah blah.... I need to save my tongue for a rhetorical analysis or the another blog or something. AHHHHH. More later. I'm blah blah blah'ing away. PEOPLE, really, Give The Freewheelin' Bob Dylan, a run through and listen to his words! If one song gave me so much to say, imagine what you could get out of the entire album. :) Super late, I'm going to bed.

Disscussion Over Full Metal Jacket

So... after first watching the movie I truly didn't grasp the genius behind Stanley Kubrick's film. Honestly, I didn't even realize how famous Stanley Kubrick was for his movies. When Mr. P pointed out that he was also the creator of Space Odyssey.. it clicked, but before that reference I really was not familiar with his name.

Anyways... Full Metal Jacket... I only took it for face value and didn't comprehend all the underlying meanings that were purposely put in to the scenes. It was amazing how much more I appreciate the movie after discussing it. Thursday's class really opened my eyes to all the different perspectives and views that one can take on Full Metal Jacket. It blew my mind that by simply changing the camera angle could add more meaning to a scene. I'm much more of a fan of Full Metal Jacket and even the ending after Thursday.

Music by Bob Dylan

I went ahead and listened to most of the songs in Bob Dylan's album, The Freewheelin' Bob Dylan. All of his music is light and good for easy listening, but they also all allude to fighting in the Vietnam War. For example, in the song A Hard Rain's A-Gonna Fall, Bob Dylan depicts the war as something that is terrible as a way of protesting the war, especially in the last verse. This is part of the final verse: "I'll walk to the depths of the deepest black forest, Where the people are many and their hands are all empty, Where the pellets of poison are flooding their waters, Where the home in the valley meets the damp dirty prison, Where the executioner's face is always well hidden, Where hunger is ugly, where souls are forgotten, Where black is the color, where none is the number." He makes it sound depressing, which is something that obviously going to be experienced at the time. The soldiers were fighting in a war that they could see was going no where.

Vietnam Tunes From Cory

One song in particular seems to be how I would envision actually being in war. Bob Dylan's song A Hard Rain's A-Gonna Fall does not necessarily go into depth on the gory details of how war would be imagined, yet it does give weary perspective. I particualrly enjoyed the description of how long the journey is. When he describes it as "six crooked highways", "seven sad forests" and a "dozen dead oceans" one feels the full extent of the not only the long journey through foreign territory, but the emotional trek. I enjoyed the metaphor of this transformation through the description of an innocent blue eyed boy. The innocence is further explained in later lyrics when he compares a new born having to deal with wild wolves. Bob chooses to use this to symbolize how a young soldier is unprepared physically and emotionally to enter a world of unfamiliar violence. Me gusta este cantante mucho. Gracias Professor

Music Moment

Listening to the tunes of Marvin Gaye creates a bittersweet sensation. On the one hand, each song has a great rhythm; each song makes you want to join in and sing to the lighthearted beat. But if you tune into the lyrics, the song can make a totally different impression. The content of the album What’s Going On examines many controversial situations without trying to glamorize anything. Marvin Gaye sings it straight with lines like “what a shame”, “children today are really going to suffer tomorrow”, “such a bad way to live”. The messages are indicative of the times and serve to reinforce just how hard day to day life was for people during the 1960’s and 70’s. It puts a different spin on the optimistic tone of the album when you think about what influenced the lyrics of each song. Back to the bittersweet, the lines expressing feelings of despair also function as an uplifting call to action. Marvin Gaye encourages his listeners to be distressed by the situation and unite to bring about change and peace: “What’s happening, when are people going to come together”, he asks. His music is similar to the opening song of Full Metal Jacket. The melody itself is bright but the underlying meaning is often bleak. All in all, I admire artists like Marvin Gaye for using their ability and their influence to spread powerful messages world-wide and to give others hope for the future.

Paint It Black

The Rolling Stones' song "Paint It Black" was featured in Full Metal Jacket. I believe this is one of the most important songs from the movie. It isn't expressively about the Vietnam war, but it is a song which could serve great meaning for all of those who did serve in Vietnam. It represents many different things such as premature death, the loss of innocence, and the loss of hope. Black represents many different things, but the one we are almost all familiar with is death. "Paint It Black" addresses the depression that was suffered during these times. When a soldier walked off the battle grounds still alive, one can only imagine what would be going through his mind. The line in the song "I see a line of cars and they're all painted black" also is very meaningful. When the soldiers returned back to the states, many of them had to go to many funerals of fellow soldiers. Although this song isn't expressively for Vietnam, it is a very powerful song that could be related to any war.

Jenny's response to songs

I had a similar reaction to the songs as Casey. As I was listening to each of them Full Metal Jacket kept flashing in my head. They all seemed to connect because I could relate them all to Full Metal Jacket. All of them in some way were about war, however some of the songs were kind of contradictory. This contradiction makes complete sense to me though. I think that war is so complicated its hard not to have a conflict of emotions. On the one side, you began fighting for a reason or a cause but on the other hand people are dying and you want them home and safe. In Full Metal Jacket I found it really interesting that Joker wore a peace sign and a helmet that read 'Born to Kill'. This picture conveys my point that everyone wants peace however can feel conflicted because sometimes war is necessary. It is human nature. (Awful but true) Like Joker, Eve of Destruction points out that contradiction in people. If you don't believe in war, why do you have a gun? To me this question once again reinforces all humans' internal struggle about war, and whats right and whats wrong.

Eve of Destruction/ Blowin' in the wind

After listening to all the songs, these two were the songs that stuck in my head: Eve of Destruction by Barry Mcguire and Blowin' in the Wind by Bob Dylan. Blowin' in the Wind asks many simple questions which all basically amount to one big question: when is the war going to end?

"Yes, 'n' how many deaths will it take till he knows
That too many people have died?"

If we relate it to the Vietnam war, this one question pretty much sums up the whole war. Blowin' in the wind represents the common American's views on the war, people who just wanted the war to stop and wanted their boys to come back home.

I really liked the Eve of Destruction. "Hate your next-door neighbor, but don’t forget to say grace" It points out the hypocrity and irony of war; where on one hand we're fghting for freedom and "peace" and on the other hand, we're bombing places and killing people. Soldiers who are not old enough to vote are being sent out to war, and yet they still say they believe in peace. The Eve of Destruction has an almost incredulous and sarcastic tone; after all, how can a killing machine believe in peace? You can also sense frustration in the lyrics : "my blood’s so mad feels like coagulatin’" probably at the fact that nothing is in his control.

I think both these songs represent the common American's sentiments towards the war. It shows the frustration people felt and represents the anti-war period that America was going through.

Songs and FMJ

As I listened to the songs assigned I associated each one with Full Metal Jacket and then associated it with the characters in the movie.
For example... Joker's helmet said 'Born to Kill' yet he wore a peace sign and the song Eve of Destruction said, 'you dont believe in war- whats that gun you're toting.' This relates to Vietnam too in the big picture, the American president wanted to be in the war to stop communism yet the majority of American people did not want to be in war, which is also expressed in the songs and shows more of the confusion and one source giving two signs/opinions. Then that confustion realtes to the mixmatching of music and emotional scenes in FMJ.

Did anyone else run into all these circles when listening to the songs and thinking about FMJ and the book we read about Vietnam??

Caroline: How To Write About Movies

I agree that I've never really thought much about analyzing movies. After reading the 2 chapters from our course packet, I realized there are many factors to look at when analyzing. For example, the angle views are very important as well as the actors position towards the camera. I wish I had read both chapters before writing my analysis on the last scene in Full Metal Jacket. The author also pointed out that when preparing to write about movies, it's important to watch the movie twice. This really does help because the first time you watch it, you tend to not pay little attention to details such as camera view. Instead, you're just trying to understand the plot. The 2nd time would be good to take notes and make observations without getting lost in the movie. Song choice would also be good to pay attention to. Not only the melody but looking up the lyrics would can also show the director's intentions or how it relates to the movie.

Also when writing an analysis, the intended audience plays a factor. You can assume the author has seen the movie and wouldn't have to write a summary before your analysis.

With Regards to Writing About the Movies:

Hello everybody! I hope you all had a wonderful week-end. I do not have many new or original ideas at this time but would just like to comment on the reading assignment. I found it interesting how there are so many different ways to think or write about a film. One usually would expect to see a standard review or critique for a film, but there are so many other ways to express one's opinion. Before this class and my Intro to Media Studies one, I was a casual viewer. Now, I am learning to look beyond simple entertainment value in the hope of understanding the true meaning of any visual work. I was amazed to see that there are screening reports, movie reviews, theoretical essays, and critiques. All of these are affected by the author's individual opinion as well. This excites me as well and leads me to wonder if any report, no matter how great the effort, can ever be completely unbiased. That is all I have got for now. Take care.

Patton

I really enjoyed the speech that Patton gave. At first, I thought it was kind of odd how Patton just came up the stairs to this big stage with the United States flag in the background. While he was doing this, you can hear people kind of whispering, all of a sudden Patton orders them to stay quiet. It was kind of like the director did this on purpose to kind of give us a feel of being there. It was almost if Patton was directing his words to us through the TV. They also zoomed in on his rings,his badges and this intense look in his eyes. Those credentials=status symbol, he has power, he is someone important, he earned respect. That was my take. The director was emphasizing all these points to give us an idea that Patton was no ordinary Sgt. Patton is very blunt to start out with. He almost kind of wants to make you go out there and fight for America. The part that really got to me was when he was saying how he will cut the enemies guts and use them to oil the tanks, or when he refers to your friend, if you were to stick your hand in a bunch of goo...and knowing your friend had died. You can kind of just visualize this by the words he uses and the way he presents them to us. While he is very blunt and violent, he is also very reassuring. The way he concluded the speech was in a low tone, very calm, and it gives you this feeling that this guy is for real.

Daniel.... Naming of Parts

I really thought it was amazing how just the tone, alone, can have such a drastic effect on how a poem is interpreted. The first time I read Naming of Parts I noticed that there was a distinct division of attitude in each section, but the way it sounded when Krzys read it visualized that distinction. Two distinct vioces, two distinct thoughts. Each carying their own purpose while blending into one idea. That is poetry.

Tiffany's Response to Full Metal Jacket

I, like so many others it seems like, had a really hard time watching FMJ. And I agree with the previous poster when they said that this movie is different because it takes us through the entire experience of these soldiers, beginning at boot camp. It was interesting and kind of disturbing at the same time for me to see the transition of these guys who turned from nervous, eager, kids to trained, emotionless, killers. The part of the movie that stuck with me the most was definitely the whole story of Pyle. It was so sad for me to watch the other soldiers turn on him when he couldn't help the fact that he simply was not made to be in the army and he couldn't handle all the stuff that they had to do, and eventually the ridicule, humiliation, and emotional turmoil he suffered at the hands of Gen. Harden and the other soldiers caused him to not only kill the General but to take his own life as well.

Full Metal Jacket !

Sooo... I was super excited to see that Vincent D'Onofrio had a role in this movie. Anyone else absolutely obsessed with Law and Order and made the connection!?! He's the witty detective on Criminal Intent... great actor. Anyways, he plays quite a different role in Full Metal Jacket as Private Pyle. He did a pretty good job of portraying a mad man though; I was definitely creeped out. Its a shame he was only in half the movie...

Other thoughts on the movie: I found it very interesting how a good part of the movie was set at boot camp. Most war movies start in media res and begin with the soldiers in the midst of the direct fighting. I think adding some background to the whole situation gives the audience a wider scope on things. Not only does it reveal the psychological pressures place on a soldier from the get go, but it also creates a more developed main character. Joker proves to be a very well rounded individual and through his experience, we can further understand the internal conflict between war and peace, human decency and retribution, and so forth... "The duality of man".

Not the biggest fan of the ending... probably meant to symbolize that there is no end to war itself or something like that. I think the movie could have had a better stopping point though... anyone else agree?

FMJ: A Rhetoric of Protest

Like many of you, I was deeply moved by Full Metal Jacket. I found its depiction of the tragedies of war to be truly shocking and heart-wrenching. The death of Gomer Pyle was sad, however, I cannot honestly say that it came as a surprise. From the very beginning, it was apparent that he had some sort of learning or mental disorder. In "real life", a person of that nature would never even get past an initial military screening, let alone pass basic training. Once he got beaten by his very comrades and cried the next day during physical training, it was apparent that he had reached the breaking point and things would be very different for him from that point onward. I advise all of you to remember that this is a work of fiction. Just because Kubrick made this film (and I view him as an exemplary writer and director), does not make this the Bible of military activities. This movie acts as a protest to war and violence in general and should only be viewed as such. The movie also seems to have two distinct halves. The first, seems to deal with life at boot camp and depicts this through black comedy. I found this to be the more enjoyable portion of the movie. Just to let you all know though, I am undergoing basic training right now and it is no where near as morally and mentally degrading as found in this film. As a work of anti-war propaganda, the augmentation of the strenuous nature of boot camp serves to further motivate the audience into a feeling of direct opposition toward the military. The second portion of the film deals more directly with the real horror of direct combat and battle and the dehumanizing effect it has upon both soldiers and the civilians involved. In contrast to Deepti, I feel that the killing of the Vietnamese sniper at the end, demonstrates the greatest humanity shown throughout the whole film. Instead of a lack of sympathy and human decency that no other soldier is willing to demonstrate, Joker makes the incredibly tough decision to end her life rather than to "leave her to the rats". This was an act of mercy and one of the few moments of understanding demonstrated throughout the film. Without revealing too much of what I intend to write about, the soldiers must also revert to a childlike mindset. Without this, they could not handle the horror perpetually around them and most likely would break down, just as Pyle did. Those are my thoughts. Feel free to respond however you so desire.

Jimi

Class on Tuesday started out with Jimi Hendrix playing on his upside down Fender Stratocaster pumping out psychedelic sounds that had never been heard before by people at that time. It was an amazing start to my Tuesday.

"In stead of marching through the streets with M16s and missiles lets walk through the streets with guitars." Hendrix is saying no to war. He’s saying peace, love, and rock n’ roll. He wears bright neon ruffled blouses and pink boas with intent to catch people’s attention, and to establish an awesome credibility to his character as something new, wild, revolutionary. Hendrix wants you to get up and move, to move with his psychedelic sound, and shake you with the vibrato of his guitar.

All right, that’s all I got for now! Peace, love, and as Jimi would say, “excuse me while I kiss the sky!”

caroline's response to FMJ

I, too, had a hard time watching this movie. There were several times when I had to cover my eyes. What makes this movie so intense is the reality of the whole thing. While the Tragedy of Vietnam taught us about the historical facts of the war, Full Metal Jacket shows us what the lives of the soldiers were like.

An interesting quote from the movie was when Private Eightball said, 'Personally, I think, uh... they don't really want to be involved in this war. You know, I mean... they sort of took away our freedom and gave it to the, to the gookers, you know. But they don't want it. They'd rather be alive than free, I guess. Poor dumb bastards.' This reminded me of Tragedy of Vietnam when they thought the reason the South Vietnamese was losing was because of lack of dedication from the soldiers. It shows the frustration of Americans fighting for a war that seems endless.

Jenny: A Naming of Parts

When I first read Naming of Parts I was really confused. However, upon reading it again I realized there were two seperate speakers and each were naming the parts of something. The first speaker talks about a gun and its parts. The second speaker points out parts of nature. This contrast brings up the question of where does human nature end and violence begin? When watching Full Metal Jacket, I realized that this line of right and wrong for the soldiers slowly drifted away as the movie continued. Just as the poem runs together in a confusing fashion so that the reader isn't sure where one speaker stops and the other begins. The beginning of the poem speaks of routine. "Today we have naming of parts. Yesterday, we had daily cleaning. And tomorrow morning we shall have what to do after firing. But today, today we have naming of parts." This opening explains that the first speaker throughtout the poem is learning about the parts of a gun. Everything has a clear name and is straight forward. However, "after the firing" is unsure because nothing is clear and straight forward anymore. The comparison between the metaphor of war (the parts ofd the gun) and nature shows there simularities (which can be seen most easily in the 4th stanza particularly in the repetition of "rapidly backwards and forwards").

Full Metal Jacket-sleepless night

I watched full metal jacket last night. It is safe to say, I did not sleep last night.

This movie was painful, upsetting, tragic, disturbing, moving, eye opening, sad, and worst of all, based on real life.

While it is a movie, it didn’t seem to stray very far from the reality of the Vietnam experience. There were about three times through out the film that I almost turned it off. I definitely have a weak stomach for violence, but I also have a weak stomach for the Vietnam War. It is so perplexing in its very nature and just so hard to grapple how people made it through those times. The trials of the individual marines are what strike me the most. The director really addressed the harsh details of what it is like to be fighting in a war that no one supports, that is a challenge to justify, that people are openly and explicitly trying to bring to an immediate end. Can you even imagine? Killing thousands as a means to defend your cause when you hardly know what your cause is. It was just such a horrific time and the director really appropriately captures the emotions of it all.

Deepti: Full Metal Jacket

Full Metal Jacket was definitely an interesting movie. I probably wouldn't go as far as to say that I liked it, because I generally don't like these kind of movies, but I do believe that it gave a pretty accurate idea of what the war was like for the soldiers. It took me a while to get used to the cussing (which happened after every five seconds) and the in-your-face reality of training camp but I think the brutality and "vulgarity" was necessary because that's how training camps and war are like. It's obvious that Kubrick had no intention of diluting the violent and torturous nature of the war. He wanted the audience to get a realistic idea of what soldiers went through. The sergeant in this movie reminded me a lot of Patton, in his opening speech. It seems like the way to motivate the young marines was to insult them as much as possible so as to instill so much anger and frustration inside, that they would want to fight all the time. The way the soldiers were treated was horrific.

The one scene that shocked me is the scene where Pyle shoots the sergeant and then himself. I didn't know what to make of it because the whole sequence was so unexpected. I found myself feeling sorry for Pyle, more than anyone else. His situation really moved me and I think at the end of the movie, his was the only character I felt any kind of sympathy towards. He's the only one who seemed more like a regular human being, compared to others who just ended up being killing machines.

Another scene, was the last scene where the sniper was shot and all the soldiers stood around her as she said her last prayers before she died. The way she said "Shoot me" sent shivers down my spine. It was probably the best way to convey the brutality and absolute inhumanity of war, where humans lose a sense of right and wrong, ethics and morals, and even life and death. The scene where the soldier in the helicopter is shooting random people, simply assuming them to be Vietcongs, shows that life doesn't hold much meaning for these soliders anymore. And that's the way they've been trained to be.